Another response to Bush Administration Sanctions Torture—specifically, on this cartoon by Horsey:

>> What is your point with this? <<

A point you missed, I guess.

>> The [Horsey] cartoon starts off with a false premise: That Muslim prisoners are routinely torture murdered by the military. <<

The premise and point was that some people—like you, apparently—have their priorities wrong. They care more about America's image, which Newsweek temporarily hurt, than documented cases of torture by Americans.

"Routinely" doesn't enter into it. The cartoon suggested that torture is happening. How often it happens is almost irrelevant. If it happens more than a couple times, it's not an aberration. That's the case, in fact.

>> It would be analogous to a cartoon with a row of "scalping rooms" in the basement of a reservation casino with an Indian Chief whining about the Time magazine feature on Indian casinos while a brave complains about all the palefaces dying after getting scalped. <<

The worst that happens in a casino is that Indians fleece patrons of their money. Depicting that as a literal scalping would be a grotesque exaggeration of the facts.

In contrast, the Horsey cartoon depicted a torture room but no actual torture. There was only one dead body, although US soldiers have killed a dozen or so prisoners. No piles of naked prisoners in a pyramid. No prisoner in a hood with electrodes attached.

In other words, the cartoon underplayed the reality, making its message more than legitimate. The cartoon you proposed would severely overplay the reality, making it false and stereotypical.

>> Back in 1982 when Deukmejian was running for governor the Turkish government paid for a bunch of newspaper ads with a picture of a little blond boy and copy that more or less accused Armenian terrorists of eventually wanting to blow up Disneyland because of lies their grandparents told them about the Turks. <<

That sounds like an over-the-top, egregious cartoon like the one you proposed.

>> The [Horsey] cartoon, to me, is about as offensive as that. <<

Yeah...it's offensive to you conservatives when anyone criticizes the US legitimately. Why? Because you're radicals with a fanatical sense of your own righteousness. You can't and won't let the facts get in your way.

The debate continues (8/3/05)....
>> The "temporary hurt" Newsweek caused included some deaths that otherwise would not have happened. <<

Multiply that by about a thousand and you could be talking about Bush's ill-conceived war. So why aren't you a thousand times as outraged?

>> "Routinely" doesn't enter into it. The cartoon suggested that torture is happening. <<

There have been recent reports of torture in Afghanistan and Guantanamo, if not Iraq. There are also ongoing reports of US captives being shipped to other countries that practice torture. (Another thing you conservatives wouldn't think of protesting.) So the cartoon was accurate, which was my point.

>> The cartoon suggested it happened as a matter of standard procedure, so much so that dedicated rooms and equipment with captors complaining about "another one dying on me" like it was some on the job annoyance. <<

Whether it was standard procedure or not is debatable, but it was more than the "aberration" Bush tried to paint it.

So the cartoon exaggerated about the US having dedicated rooms and equipment, but understated the case by not showing the actual torture and abuse, not to mention the deaths. I'd call that a wash. Conclusion: The cartoon was reasonably fair, unlike your hypothetical casino cartoon.

>> How about the suicides and other acts of violence that comes from compulsive gambling? <<

It would be difficult if not impossible to trace that just to Indian casinos. One, these people are clearly disturbed. Two, they can gamble in many places besides Indian casinos.

But if you want to do a cartoon showing casino owners—including but not limited to Indians—pushing people off bridges, I wouldn't mind. That's a different message than showing Indians scalping people. A scalping cartoon would single out Indians and would imply Indians are intentionally trying to kill people.

Gonzales wrote the memo saying the president had the power to authorize torture. When you find an Indian memo saying Indians want to take every last cent from their patrons, then you'll have a comparable situation. Until then, no.

>> What facts? The cartoon didn't start off with one in the first place. <<

Sure it did. Fact: Torture has happened. Fact: Conservatives generally don't care about the existence of torture. Fact: Conservatives generally do care about their liberal media mythology, as exemplified by their howls over Newsweek's minor mistake. The cartoon captured these three facts exquisitely.

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