Hi Rob,

I have a website to enter in the Stereotype of the Month Contest, I suppose the sub-category could be new-age frauds and plastic shamans. I don't know if you've seen it before, but I feel it is particularly banal. In a nutshell, it claims that "Native American Indian religion" is basically Druid religion, brought by "Quetzalcoatl" and his fellow druids from Europe. White people not only brought Indians their religion (singular, of course), but the Indians seemingly had none before the Druids arrived.

http://www.druidcraft.us/druid_wicca_indian.htm

Had I simply stumbled upon this site it in a Google search I would've thought no one could be so ignorant as to actually believe such ridiculous and insulting drivel. It's one silly website among many. But I initially encountered it on a Yahoo group I was a member of. Judging by the lack of criticism, the other board members apparently saw nothing wrong with what they were being sent. Some of them adored it, (all while claiming to be into "Native American Spirituality," combined with Wicca and a mix of religious themes from cultures across the globe). I suppose this kind of "history" gives legitimacy to making a generic Indian religion and mixing it with New Age Wicca. Needless to say, I left that Yahoo group in disgust.

The posts were all forwarded from this Yahoo Group, sponsored by the same "Druid" organization as the website, so you can see the horror yourself.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aWordtotheWise/

The founder of this group was supposedly a "Cherokee Medicine Man" and "Grand Master" Druid. And again, I would have not believed it if I had not seen people falling for it. It has 1435 Members.

I would prefer to be kept anonymous if my entry is posted. Thanks.

Druidism, Wicca & The Native American

In the far distant past... (432 AD) a Grand Council of the Druids of all the tribes met, as they did every seven years, to share their visions of how to keep the nations in harmony with the Divine Will of the Gods and Goddesses who guided their destiny. In keeping with these visions, they would erase the laws/rules for the previous period and re-vote on those and any newer ideas to be put in place for the next seven years.

At that particular council, the Arch-Druid announced a "vision" he'd had about the religion of Christianity that was sweeping across Europe from Rome. He "saw" that it would be the religion for the Piscean Age, and that if Druidism were to survive, it would have to go underground... and disguise itself... as we know it did, in many forms.

Many of the heretofore, respected leaders of the little tribal communities decided to practice their faith within the guidelines of Christianity and became great leaders in the Orthodox religions of the time... some are now noted as Saints.

Thus, Druidism left the scene, the leaders went underground, and only secretly continued further instruction to a trusted few... for fear of discovery and certain death.

Those, now left without guidance, did the best they could with what they had learned thus far, continuing to learn and teach what they knew. Their discoveries became the basis for the practice so prevalent today, which we lovingly call "Wicca".

However, because they no longer had their mentors to help them with the inward journey the focus of the Wicca became very different. The rituals and practices they'd been taught became of utmost importance, and the reconstructionists of today revere these above all else.

The Arch-Druid continued with his vision ....saying.... he saw that the Religion of the New Age (Aquarius) would be a "seed" of Druidism that would sprout in the new land that lay to the West (of Europe).

During that Council... 12 were chosen... one of each sign... to go to the new land "seen in the vision" (but not known at that time), to plant the seeds of Druidism.

If you look at the American Indian legends of nearly every tribe... there is noted a band of white skinned wise men, lead by a fiery-haired man... among the Eastern Tribes...

When they reached the northern tribes, their leader was noted as a middle-aged man. On the west coast the tribes hailed him as a wise old man. In South America, he was known as the god: Quetzalquatl.

Mysteriously, a Viking-type long boat found the little band of men off the coast of South America just as Quetzalquatl was about to die, poisoned by a Priest of the Jaguar sacrificial cult. He had been fed tiger hair, chopped up into tiny little bits, which clogged the pores of his intestine, stopping his digestion. Quetzalquatl was slowing starving to death when he left the Americas on that ship. But great was his accomplishment!

Have you ever wondered why the Native American Indian religionis so similar to the Olde Wisdom Religion of the Druids?

Well... now you know another side to the story...

>> In the far distant past... (432 AD) a Grand Council of the Druids of all the tribes met, as they did every seven years, to share their visions of how to keep the nations in harmony with the Divine Will of the Gods and Goddesses who guided their destiny. In keeping with these visions, they would erase the laws/rules for the previous period and re-vote on those and any newer ideas to be put in place for the next seven years. <<

This sounds strikingly similar to what notorious Nuage exploiter Harley Reagan claims about a council founded 1500 years ago that he has secret psychic contact with. I wonder if these pagans have been members of his "Deer Tribe"?

>> Thus, Druidism left the scene, the leaders went underground, and only secretly continued further instruction to a trusted few... for fear of discovery and certain death. <<

Over at NAFPS we've had some European members with an interest in paganism. They tell me that most of the claimed "Druid" groups in Europe are just "playing Druid."

>> Those, now left without guidance, did the best they could with what they had learned thus far, continuing to learn and teach what they knew. Their discoveries became the basis for the practice so prevalent today, which we lovingly call "Wicca". <<

Problem with that is, it's a lie. Wicca was invented in the 1950s by Gardner.

>> If you look at the American Indian legends of nearly every tribe... there is noted a band of white skinned wise men, lead by a fiery-haired man... among the Eastern Tribes... <<

Every tribe? No, actually none that I know of.

>> When they reached the northern tribes, their leader was noted as a middle-aged man. On the west coast the tribes hailed him as a wise old man. In South America, he was known as the god: Quetzalquatl. <<

Since when is Mexico part of South America? Or Guatemala, where he was known as Kukulcan. Actually the stories of him as "white" are probably a metaphor. In other accounts he's described as having Black skin. Not deep brown like an African, but like the coals of a campfire. Contrary to what some Europeans claim, Aztecs didn't think Cortez was a returning god. Only Moctezuma did.

>> Mysteriously, a Viking-type long boat found the little band of men off the coast ofSouth America just as Quetzalquatl was about to die, poisoned by a Priest of the Jaguar sacrificial cult. He had been fed tiger hair, chopped up into tiny little bits, which clogged the pores of his intestine, stopping his digestion. Quetzalquatl was slowing starving to death when he left the Americas on that ship. But great was his accomplishment! <<

Yeah, right. Some accounts say he left on foot. Some say he was condemned and put to death, thus his sacrifice either setting a pattern for Aztec sacrifices, or temporarily putting a halt to them. I've never heard this version of the story before, so until I see another version not from them, tend to doubt it. Though I admit to not being a specialist in Mesoamerica pre conquest.

>> Have you ever wondered why the Native American Indian religionis so similar to the Olde Wisdom Religion of the Druids?

Well... now you know another side to the story... <<

It never occurred to them any similarities are due to them being a tribal people at the time too?

Seems like their egos demand that THEY, the Great White Saviors, want to believe that Indians Learned From The White Man How To Be Spiritual.

urk! Not what I learned, from more than one Wiccan Priestess, I might add.

Okay, in essence, like Native American Spiritual practices, traditional Wicca and the other remnets of European tribal spirituality, are similar because that's how tribal spirituality works. There might have been contact, but even without it, things would be similar. That's because tribes work a certain way, and these practices are based on what works.

The bit about the tiger hair is new. Never heard that one before.

BTW, I am not talking about Gardnarian Wicca, a rather fundamentalist construct which claims to be a restored Wicca.

Linde

It has been widely believed that the Aztec Emperor Moctezuma II initially believed the landing of Hernán Cortés in 1519 to be Quetzalcoatl's return. This has been questioned by many ethnohistorians (e.g. Matthew Restall 2001) who argue that the Quetzalcoatl-Cortés connection is asserted in no documents created independently of post-Conquest Spanish influence, and that there is little proof of a pre-Hispanic belief in Quetzalcoatl's return. Most documents expounding this theory are of entirely Spanish origin, such as Cortés's letters to Charles V of Spain, in which Cortés goes to great pains to present the naïve gullibility of the Mexicans in general as a great aid in his conquest of Mexico.

Much of the idea of Cortés being seen as a deity can be traced back to the Florentine Codex written down some 50 years after the conquest. In the codex's description of the first meeting between Moctezuma and Cortés, the Aztec ruler is described as giving a prepared speech in classical oratorial Nahuatl, a speech which, as described verbatim in the codex (written by Sahagún's, Tlatelolcan informants who were probably not eyewitnesses of the meeting), included such prostrate declarations of divine or near-divine admiration as,

and,

Subtleties in, and an imperfect scholarly understanding of, high Nahuatl rhetorical style make the exact intent of these comments tricky to ascertain, but Restall argues that Moctezuma politely offering his throne to Cortés (if indeed he did ever give the speech as reported) may well have been meant as the exactly opposite of what it was taken to mean: politeness in Aztec culture was a way to assert dominance and show superiority. This speech, which has been widely referred to, has been a factor in the widespread belief that Moctezuma was addressing Cortés as the returning god Quetzalcoatl.